car efficiency

[bolson]

I made a simple spreadsheet showing economy of cars at $3.50/gal, comparing Prius and Insight hybrids and a standard Fit.

You need either a lot of miles or really expensive gas to make the added cost pay for itself.

Of course there may also be other features between these cars. Maybe the high end is also to be nicer for people who want to pay for nice, and the low end is the budget model for people without that cash. There's some test-driving to be done.

Comments

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

The hybrids are also low emission vehicles.

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

In strictly economic terms, the cost of maintenance on a hybrid is also often higher because only dealers can do things beyond the oil change level.

That said, I think there's still moral superiority involved in using less gas.

[soong.livejournal.com]

Yes, but how much do I want to pay for my moral superiority?
(And how much should I tell people I paid for my moral superiority?)

If I wanted to pay more for my moral superiority, I would clearly have to go with the Chevy Volt. This is the only car I could drive if I were running for office (gotta drive American Made) and courting the green vote as I naturally would be.

[starphire.livejournal.com]

Well, you'd only be paying for it IF the cost of gas actually stays close to where it currently is, over the ownership of your new vehicle. Which seems highly unlikely to me if you're thinking more than a few years out, even if things go as well as anyone could hope for re: the availability of oil worldwide at current extraction costs.

Also, are you expecting to be doing mostly highway miles away from the city, or more for workday commuting? I found that in typical commuter driving from Boston to suburb, a *Camry* hybrid averaged about 44mpg whenever I drove it (aiming for good efficiency, admittedly), though it topped out at maybe 35 if it was all highway driving. Why is it that this larger/heavier (and quiet riding & comfy) vehicle does better mpg than an Insight appears to, I wonder?

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

This is a reasonable question, since cost and moral superiority clearly have a direct correlation. I personally feel some obligation to spend more money on greener options because that's an option for me more than for many people, and because I spend a non-zero chunk of my discretionary income on totally non-green pursuits, like "driving places for fun."

[genuinekfc.livejournal.com]

The Prius does not automatically use less gas. There are a couple aggressive drivers at my company with Priuses (Prii?) who couldn't figure out why they were getting less mpg than co-workers with who drive efficiently in some of the good-but-not-hybrid-mpg class of cars.

Any idea what type of batteries are being shipped with the newer Prius models?

[soong.livejournal.com]

2011 Prius has NiMH batteries. ( http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html )

[devreux.livejournal.com]

only dealers can do things beyond the oil change level.

As someone who likes to be able to work on her own car, I will mention here that while it is true that new cars have fewer genuinely user-serviceable parts in them than older cars ... the quality and longevity of modern new components is actually improving a lot. For instance, a car maker may design a car in which you have to do something completely insane, like drop the transmission in order to change the spark plugs ... except that the days of spark plugs needing to be replaced every 40,000 miles are fading away. In a new car, the spark plugs should last 100K miles or more, meaning that in the 'average' lifespan of a car the dropping-the-tranny-to-change-spark-plugs will never even crop up. ~shrug~ It's an idea that is taking some getting used to. (I will need to buy a new car soon, so these are things I'm thinking about.) Of course, if you get in an accident and the car suffers traumatic damage you'll also be unable to do much about that yourself - but most of us don't do our own body work even on our older, user-serviceable cars, either.

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

I just meant dealers instead of independent mechanics, who are usually cheaper.

[genuinekfc.livejournal.com]

hehe, I should send you a link to the color line chart I made showing the cost of car plus gas over x number of years for about 10 cars in the same class, including the Prius. The Prius definitely cuts a swath across the others, but was still mid-range for total cost over 12 years. Subtracting the tax incentive probably helps.

[catya.livejournal.com]

I was going to ask if you put the tax incentive in your numbers?

If $$ are the primary thing, the fit is a better choice anyway, I think.

[genuinekfc.livejournal.com]

Cost is important, but how well each car fits your life is pretty important, as well. I mostly used the chart as a comparison when looking at multiple factors.

Accounting for the tax incentive and calculating for $4/gal, the 2010 Prius skipped ahead of the VW Beetle, Suzuki SX4, and Mini Cooper. It still takes over 10 years to meet the cost of Ford Fiesta, Mazda2, Toyota Corolla, VW Jetta non-diesel, and Nissan Versa. (I also made this chart last year, and I think the base price of the Prius has been dropping.) I just added the base 2011 Honda Fit to the chart and found it to be almost dead even with the Mazda2.

[catya.livejournal.com]

Sorry - pronoun trouble. I was wondering if Brian took it into account :)

(I drive the 2010 prius and love it, which he knows.)

[soong.livejournal.com]

I didn't know there were still incentive programs that applied. I thought those all expired years ago.

Money isn't the primary thing, but it's a big thing. I'm certainly willing to apply some money and work into more idealistic transportation choices. My pure electric scooter is notably almost working out well. :-)

[catya.livejournal.com]

They were still around last tax year - I am not sure about this year *nodnod*

[fengshui.livejournal.com]

The fit is the go-to small car around here. If you end up in one, I think you'll like it a lot.